Another video showing Islam

Monday, March 5, 2007
another video showing islam
this is what muslims think.click on the link to see the videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIcS-eZ71yg&mode=related&search=
4:48:38 PM
Posted By sandeep jawale Comments (4) Politics
Comments
vaskapavarapu Monday, March 5, 2007 4:59:37 PM
This shows how narrow thier mind are..
exactly Monday, March 5, 2007 5:55:12 PM
he is an idiot, don't understand meaning of religion first
sage Monday, March 5, 2007 6:09:17 PM
this is a fact. and true face of islam
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 6:15:22 PM
With propagators like Dr. Zakir Naik, Islam does not need enemies.

Infidel Monday, March 5, 2007 7:47:31 PM
And the award for best clown of the year goes to ZAkir NAik.Venu, see the logic of this clown."Since 2+2=4, hence islam is the true religion".Since 2+2=3 hence all other religions are false and their way of worship is wrong.Who says so, quran says so. Wow, what a reasoning. The comic book says so, hence clowns should follow it blindly. Ridiculous.Only showing the a$$ 5 times a day is the only true way of worshipping. What a crap.Looks that allah is also fond of sodomy like other mullahs. LOL "
Kya_KehneZakir Monday, March 5, 2007 8:25:37 PM
It is BA*S*TARD like Zakir naik that Islam has become intolerant and entrapped in the time capsule of vintage 7th Century.His logic is that all other religions are false. And here his co-followers like HUMAN/IRSHAD/RUZAN/SHA HAM/LEARNER/AMARDEEP/and many hidden faces who have been telling us that Islam preaches equality and love amongst all humans. My foot.what happens if other nations,withdifferent majority religion follow the same logic? forget the threat of terror. this is the only way to deal with people lost in the time machine of past 1400 years.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 11:14:02 PM
Zakir Naik, while saying in religious matters Muslims know best, conceeds that in other subjects they need to be taught and welcome teachers from everywhere. Infidel, offer yourself as a candidate to teach logic to Muslims. You are really good at it. I am sure they would welcome you. You have Dr. Naik's word for it.

An amazing festival: Veerendra Heggade

Re: An amazing festival: Veerendra Heggade K.Venugopal 3/4/2007 10:56:01 AM Attukal is poised to be the next Sabarimala. I think the authorities that be should now itself formulate plans to cater to the rush of pilgrims in the years to come.

Re: An amazing festival: Veerendra Heggade K.Venugopal 3/4/2007 10:56:01 AM Attukal is poised to be the next Sabarimala. I think the authorities that be should now itself formulate plans to cater to the rush of pilgrims in the years to come.

Red assault on Kerala's Hindu temples

"Hindu temples for Hindus"
RED ASSAULT ON KERALA'S HINDU TEMPLES

WAKE UP, O HINDU, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE
HINDUS in Kerala and all over the world are today struggling as never before to keep their Dharma alive. Which religion in the world except Hindu Dharma calls upon their followers to pray "Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu" ("May all creatures in the world be happy")? Hindu faith is the sum total of rituals, traditions and good thoughts.
While all Semitic religions are failing, Hindu culture is growing well even in former communist countries. Churches in Europe, America and Russia are being turned into Hindu temples while the Hindu way of thinking has entered even the forts of Semitic religions. But there have always been people who have tried to destroy the Hindu Dharma. How many pitiable stories are there of religious conversion of Hindus at the point of a sword, destruction of Hindu idols, looting and conversion of temples into mosques and churches! That Hindu culture has survived despite such assaults, and it is its greatness. Hindu temples are focal points of this culture that gave birth to so many great sages. The Hindu's concept of God begins in temple rituals and traditions. The Hindu satisfies his/her soul by seeing his/her own divinity in the idols in the temples. Temples have also been symbols of Hindu culture for ages. It was Jagadguru Adi Shankaracharya who laid down the rules for temple rituals. Strict temple rituals in Kerala have created powerful deities. That is why Kerala is known as Gods Own Country. It is in Hindu temples of Kerala alone that the world's most powerful rituals for Pooja are still practiced. Temples and rituals related to temples were the bedrocks of our culture until recently. Local people took care of the temples even before the start of rule by kings. Even the king considered himself a servant of the deity of the temple. To help the temples meet their costs, the kings gave away acres of land to the temples and declared their incomes from these lands tax-free. During those days, the aristocrats strived for the welfare of the temples. Hindu culture woke up every day within the walls of the temples. After the state of Kerala was created, Devasom Boards were created to help run the affairs of isolated temples smoothly. A governing body which included Mannathu Padmanabhan and R. Shankar took over the reins. Hindu society thought that this would help organize the temples of Kerala, particularly those of Travancore, along sound lines. However, most of the tenants of temple lands were non-Hindus. The temples lost all these lands as a result of the so-called land reforms inflicted by EMS and the cunning moves of P.T.Chacko. The once wealthy temples were reduced to penury almost overnight.
This created the circumstances which helped the government to assert its authority over the temples since it had become almost impossible to meet the day-to-day needs of the temples without government help. What began to crumble were not just the temple but also the faith of the Hindus. What stood in the way of the spread of communism was Hindu spirituality. By impoverishing the temples, the evil intentions of EMS succeeded! Every succeeding government in Kerala worked to weaken Hindu culture. Customs gradually died out and many temple arts became extinct. This strengthened communist thinking. Malabar, where many temples had been destroyed earlier by Islamic invader Tipu, became a fertile breeding ground for communism. If the temples of Travancore and Kochi can also be destroyed, the Hindu's interest in temple rituals will decrease and this can speed up the growth of communism. This is the secret aim of the present anti-God political leadership of Kerala. The temples once belonged either to families or local Hindu communities. They were never built or run with income from tax on the whole Kerala society which includes non-Hindus. "Temples belong to Hindus alone". The temples are the blood, sweat and traditions of the Hindus. It is right of people who believe in Hinduism to keep temple customs and traditions alive. Atheistic Communists need not worry about keeping Hindu traditions alive. That has to be decided by believing Hindus alone. The temple ordinance that the Kerala government has brought, should be thrown into the Arabian Sea. It is not for a government deeply hostile to Hinduism, that includes non-Hindus, to decide on Hindu customs. How many ministers are there in the present government who took their oath of office in the name of God? Is it not true that even the Devaswom minister is an atheist? What can such an atheist do to save the religion and temples of the Hindus? Is it not true that the entry of politicians into temple managements created the circumstances for massive corruption? Is there any field where politicians have not been corrupt? Realizing God was the ultimate aim of temple managements before the entry of politicians. Every Hindu must get ready to oppose this temple ordinance. It must be resisted. The Hindu should never allow this black law to be imposed on his society. This ordinance must be resisted even at the cost of one's life.
The management of Hindu temples should be the right and the duty of Hindus alone. "Hindu temples for Hindus" should be our slogan. Let the responsibility of management of Kerala's temples go to the revered Sannyasis. Kerala must have a panel of Sannyasis on the model of Tirupati or Sivagiri. That panel should select five or seven members as leaders to manage the temples. A true Hindu spiritual leadership can be created if a judge appointed by the Supreme Court selects the panel from all the Swamis of all the ashrams in Kerala. This panel should have all the authority and responsibility to protect and administer all the temples and to provide spiritual leadership to the Hindu society of Kerala. The name "Devasom Board" itself must change since it has come to mean a business enterprise. It must be renamed as the Kerala Temple Management Committee (Kerala Kshetra Bharana Samithi). This committee should control the financial matters of the temples. The money donated by Hindu devotees is their offering to God and cannot be deposited in the government's treasury to provide subsidy and tents for Haj travelers to Mecca. The money donated by Hindu pilgrims to Sabarimala cannot be allowed to be used to pay salaries of Kerala government servants. This is not tax that rightly belongs to government, rather it is the devotee's own offering to God (Kanikka). This money should be used only for the smooth running of temples. If needed, more money can be found in the general budget. The government's treasury must provide the temple with needed funds just as they provide subsidy for Haj travelers around 300 Crores every year. Hindus rightly fear that the new ordinance brought by the Kerala government will deny them their right to manage their temples. If the ordinance becomes a law, government nominee will have the right to control any temple ritual or custom. Kerala's Hindu society justifiably fears that, as happened in Bengal, the government will try to destroy temple rituals through its representative on the temple management Committee (Kerala Kshetra Bharana Samithi). Even the study of temple arts, study of the Bhagavad Gita and other spiritual activities may come to be controlled by the government. The spiritual committee consisting of Sannyasis must therefore have the full responsibility for administering Hindu temples. It was the so-called minority communities who stole the ancestral land of Kerala's temples. As compensation, the government budget should make a provision for financial help to the temples. The development of Sabarimala and facilities for devotees much be taken up urgently. Any development there must be with the knowledge and sanction of the committee consisting of Sannyasis. This committee must be completely free of politicians. The Devaswom minister himself has admitted that corruption is the objective of the politicians, whether belonging to the left, right or centre. The temple committee must also be free of influence of community leaders as many of whom treat Hindu shrines like Sabarimala as a milky cow. Many of these leaders have looted crores of rupees from the devotees of Lord Ayyappan. Some of them are even willing to accept the temple ordinance. Not only they have no devotion to Sabarimala, even daily poojas are not conducted in the many temples controlled by these community leaders. These leaders, who have lost the faith of the community, are betraying an entire community for a little cash for themselves. The CBI must inquire into corruption in Sabarimala during the past 30 years. Wake up, O Hindu! The houses of our faith and spirituality are in danger. If the present trend continues, the next generation will see temples as museums. We will forever lose the temples that showered light and grace on us for ages.
The ordinance was implemented in a manner never ever heard before. No Hindu has protested the extreme haste with which this dangerous new ordinance was brought in. No decision in such a matter should have been taken without consulting our revered saints and Sannyasis. The present ordinance is a conspiracy to implement the agenda of the atheists. Since no minister in the present has taken his oath of office in the name of God, they have no moral right to take a decision in religious matters. Are they planning to hold PSC exams for Devaswom jobs with the aim of providing jobs for their slogan-shouting atheistic followers who even insult the judiciary? A temple employee must be knowledgeable about religious customs and rituals. Devotees should not allow temples to become business centers. The Kerala Temple Management Committee must be the only agency for administration, appointments and all matters related to temples. No appointment should be allowed on the basis of chits from the party office. Kerala's Hindu culture has been greatly damaged by its spiritual leaders staying away from the cultural and social scene. Sannyasis must at least now descend from their ashrams to the midst of common people. Will spirituality survive after all the temples of Kerala have been destroyed? Leaders of other religions are active in the social, cultural, spiritual fields of their respective communities and often intervene to ensure gains for their community. Are Hindu Sannyasis alone forbidden from doing the same? It is time for spiritual leaders, Acharayas, Swamijis and Madathipathis to come out in the open and inspire and guide Hindus to preserve, protect and promote Hindu Temples, rituals, traditions, and festivals. Spiritual practices and dissemination of valuable, informative and spiritually uplifting Vedic literature without preserving our Temples would be difficult. Hindu destiny is at stake. It is time for Saints and laymen to make a choice to fight against the Marxist take over of our Temples. Organisations like Vishwa Hindu Parishad, Kshetra Samrakshana Samiti, SNDP Yogam, Samastha Kerala Nayar Samajam and All Hindu organizations from abroad should take up the matter urgently. We must also urgently appeal to the President of India, the Supreme Court Chief Justice and the Kerala Governor to help defeat this black law. We must act not only to inform the Hindu about this black law but to make him/her angry, indeed incensed, about it. We must get the message across to every Keralite Hindu by all means including phone, e-mail, fax, SMS. We must also inform all Hindu leaders and ashrams to urgently wake them up to the danger all of us are facing.
Posted on 3/2/2007 by HK

Ajay Sharma 3/3/2007
Re: "Hindu temples for Hindus" Dear All,Remember - When all peacefull means fail to yield result it would become imperative for Hindu Society to pick up arms for defense of its culture, vaules and life style. Jai Shri RamAjay Sharma
Manoj Padhi 3/3/2007
Re: "Hindu temples for Hindus" Dear Sir,I am editor of HindToday.comI believe that Hindu Dharmais flawlesshttp://hindtoday.com/Blogs/ViewBlogs.aspx?HTAdvtId=124&HTAdvtPlaceCode=INDI guess will also agree to this.You will also agree that around 52AD St. Thomas reached Kerala started his conversion mission. Similarly all muslim kings/rulers converted Hindus to muslims by force or by offereing them jobs/promotions.So since people of all religions origin was Hinduism, it will be good for all of us if we open our temples to all religions and explain them what is Hinduism and start bringing them back to Hinduism.We are working in this missionhttps://lists.cs.columbia.edu/pipermail/ornet/2006-April/011084.htmlAnd we need your support.
K.Venugopal 3/3/2007
Re: "Hindu temples for Hindus" We have to have study classes all over the state to educate our workers as to exactly what the government takeover means, why they did it, its implications, the alternative and what we have to do to get our temples back. Then, we have to form "information squads" of people so educated and have them go to temples near their homes and interact with the temple-goers so that the temple goers know exactly what the issue is. After this is done over a period time systematically thoroughly and in an organised manner, there will be a surge of the population in answer to our call to liberate the temples. May I, as an individual blogger, also ask Haindava Keralam to publish all facts and data of the issue so that bloggers like me in turn can propagate our point of view correctly.
mithun 3/3/2007
Re: "Hindu temples for Hindus" sir,what u hav told is 100 percent correct.yesterday govt has nominated a card holding memnber and kozhikode dist comitee secratary and former mayor thoothathil raveendran as new chairman of guruvayur devasom..will marxists hav same guts to do this in some other religious intstitutions of minorities...but only we hindus to blame for this....

On the Muslim question

On the Muslim Question3/1/2007 5:36:31 PM
Dr. TS. Girishkumar

I had been interacting with the Muslims in a most strange manner, and looking at their feelings, expressions and so on. Prima facie, things are far more complicated and elusive than one might think at first is the impression it all gave me on a final analysis. This interaction was through the inter net, and this made me converse with people from all corners, and rather all kinds of Muslims. Ultimately, it all leaves me with the feeling that some things is not just right with them, at least those who were airing out their views, and this, they are never going to understand, and understand if they, then there would have been no Muslim problems at all.

Khizer Hyatt Mallik of Pakistan is only fond of abusing Hindus. He speaks abusive literature on Hindus, and Hindu practices. Minhas of Pakistan is different, trying to say that just because he is a Muslim, he is different from other Indians. Shaik Hyder of Pakistan is a kind of expert; he finds all kinds of anti Hindu writings and keeps posting them.

Then comes Indians, and perhaps all of them are Keralites. I could not come across Indians from other parts of this country; all Muslim and Christian writers are from Kerala. Kutty O Hamza is a person who is still left with some reason. Regi P George is a person who wants India to melt in the ocean like what Shakespeare says; let Rome in Tiber melt! There is another person, Liyaret Sunil; also from Kerala, with this strange name, who speaks just like a Pakistani or Taliban.

All arguments they put forward can be summed up in the following manner. Hinduism is only Brahmanism, which is the domination of the Brahmin caste. RSS is an instrument for maintaining the Brahmin domination over the Indian land scape. There is Devadasi practice in Hinduism, and Hinduism supports this. This lets prostitution permissible in the Hindu religion. There is this horrible caste distinction within the Hindu society, and RSS wants to maintain caste discrimination. The Hindus burn their brides should they fail to bring dowry. The Hindus burn their brides along with a dead husband. Further they say that the Hindus worship monkeys, snakes and the Linga.

Just these and nothing more. For them, there is only one true God, and all others are false. Every one ought to follow this one true God, and Islam. All others are very unfortunate since they could not become Muslims till now. Pakistan had always been right and India wrong. There are more and more to this, but they are all details, these are just points to ponder over the Muslim mind.

The Ali brothers, Mohammad and Shoukat Ali were so clear about what a Muslim ought to be in Indian context; and it is to none other than the Gandhi they told that: “Primarily we are Muslims and then Only Indians”. Their priorities are to Islam, and then if something is left, to Hindustan. Gandhiji must have swallowed these words, as he was later found refusing to attend a round table conference for more autonomy with the Khilafat in the swing, since the British did not release Ali brothers from the Jail. Finally, these Muslims kicked Gandhi ji below the very belt, by shifting loyalties to the British.

They all spoke the Hindustani language. But the Muslims wanted it to be written using Persian Script and give it the name Urdu. They refused to write their mother tongue in Devanagari script, which is Vedic and Indian. They can take a script which has nothing to do with their ancestors, but they had agitated against Devanagari script. They wanted the language to be called Urdu, instead of calling it Hindi.

Now they keep spreading hatred and curse upon the Hindus and India. As a matter of fact, these lots are immensely frustrated and goal less. They do not want to acknowledge their follies, and short comings, and venture out to debate and as they become unable to debate, they abuse. They are abetted by some Indians like Liyarat Sunil in their spurious attack on RSS, Hindutva etc. they are unable to withstand the fact that just a handful of Hebrews are teaching all the Arabs the much wanted lessons. When they were put to this question: ‘If the Muslims were in the position of the Jews, then can you imagine what would have happened to the world?’ no one except Shaik Hyder tried to answer. He tried to wriggle out saying that the Jews are smarter, educated and gets aids and so on.

I must sum up it all in this manner. Such Muslims with the Jihadi and fanatic bent of mind are irredeemable, and there is absolutely no point in trying to reason with them. There are other Muslims of course, but they are not at all in the lime light. These people can only be dealt with a firm hand.

Re: On the Muslim Question K.Venugopal 3/3/2007 7:30:27 AM Dear Dr. Girishkumar,Your attempts to understand the Muslim mind is worthwhile and your report makes fascinating reading. I note the following points as it comes to my mind:1. Islam is a dogmatic religion (that is, what is written in the Quran has to be followed letter perfect), whereas Hinduism is a philosophical religion (that is, the letters in its scriptures are only a guidance to the larger spirit of its teachings). 2. In Islam, the Creator and creation are separate and irreconcilable entities and the relationship is as between King and subject or Master and slave. In Hinduism, the Creator and creation are understood to be eventually the same and therefore the relationship between Creator and creation is as between, say, the Ocean and its waves or as Lover and beloved in bhakti.3. Islam has survived this far only because it has always been a State religion or a religion protected and supported by the State. Questioning Islam is taboo and over the generations, the very idea of questioning Islam has become an offence to the Muslims. Hinduism has survived through the power of the Gurus and their accessibility to the masses. Questioning is the very basis of teaching Hinduism. 4. The internet is the first medium in history that has the power to question Islam and get away with it. These questionings of Islam, from the marriage of Mohammad to minor Ayesha to errors in the Quran, are slowly bringing Islam to a level playing field.5. Islam (and Christianity) with its “My God the only true God” position, is extremely vulnerable when contrasted with the Hindu teaching of “Truth is one and the wise express it variously.”6. Hindu culture with its vision of Advaita has been eminently successful in amalgamating and keeping distinct at the same time various forms of expressions of the divine and therefore we have had the religions of Veda, Vedanta, Shiva, Vishnu, Shakti, Buddha, Jain, Sikh, Sai etc. living in great harmony in India. In Islam the Sunni-Shia animosity occurred within 50 years of its founding and till today they have not been able to find a solution to their rift in spite of following one scripture and prophet and God. This is because of their dogmatic approach to the Quran.7. Islam has political ambitions and Islam cannot be practiced completely unless it has a State to implement its constitution, that is, the Sharia. Therefore secularism, where the State is not an instrument of religion, is not acceptable to Islam. The goal of Hinduism is moksha or individual liberation and it has no need for the State.8. After the partition of India, the Muslims are now trying to get themselves outside the purview of the Indian constitution, as witnessed by the passage of the Shariat law by the J&K assembly. This move must be questioned.9. Hindus have arisen, but are not awake yet. We have to awake and prove it by getting rid of the spectre of terrorism inspired by Islam that is threatening India.

Bombay calling - Rexona

Saturday, March 3, 2007
bombay calling - "rexona"
one of the first problems you face when you move to a new flat is finding a maid. so when i shifted to vashi, i informed the guard at the gate that i was looking for a maid who would come every week end and relieve me of such mundane chores as washing clothes, doing jhaadu and poncha, etc.
this morning, a young lady, who introduced herself as "rexona" faced me as i opened the door in response to her bell. i soon discovered that her name was meant to be ruksana, but years of illiterate usage and the complete absence of education in the circles in which she moves, had corrupted it to rexona.
rexona agreed to the deal offered - rs. 50 per week for all the items of work mentioned above and got cracking. i watched in silent admiration at the remarkable efficiency with which she made light of tasks which seemed such tough assignments to me.
while she went about ridding the flat of one week of dust, she kept an animated conversation going, enquiring where my wife and kids were and where i was from etc., etc. on being told told there is no wife and therefore no kids at present she went quiet. i had of course taken the precaution of keeping the front door open lest i be accused by an unscruplous lady of doing with her what i should not be doing. we bachelors have to take these precautions.
she told me she was one of eight children, her father was a scavanger and she has been working in households ever since she can remember. she never went to school and cannot read or write. she was married off to a peon in a private company in vashi when sixteen. she was the mother of five kids none of whom go to school. her husband deserted her five years ago and is presently living with another woman.
after she was gone i reflected on how difficult life is for some people. if at all there is god, he must be one hell of a cruel creature.
think about it.
the middle manager
3:09:31 PM
Posted By himanshu saxena Comments (1) Lifestyle
Comments
K.Venugopal Saturday, March 3, 2007 4:22:22 PM
Himanshu, Why blame God? You have also joined the list of those exploiting her by paying only Rs.50 for doing in a day the piled-up work of a week .

Kill the dog lover's first

Friday, March 2, 2007
Kill the Doglovers first
Kill all the doglovers and then kill all the stray dogs mercifully. Those who dont value human life have no right to live.
11:49:25 AM
Posted By nothing tosay Comments (6) Personals
Comments

K.Venugopal Friday, March 2, 2007 12:12:26 PM
Dear nothing tosay, You appear to be criminal minded. Why call for killing of innocents, even of stray dogs?

Blog_Inspect Friday, March 2, 2007 12:20:02 PM
Each dog has its hour and each man his day, so says the adage!
perfektm Friday, March 2, 2007 12:31:02 PM
we dont promote killing of innocents... even of dogs ?anyone want a hotdog?
nothingtosay Friday, March 2, 2007 12:32:08 PM
stray dogs are killing children in mumbai and bangalore and other places. Have not you read the recent news about how a 4year old was mauled to death? slum children are the victims mostly. The rich who are invariably straydog lovers are the real criminals.

K.Venugopal Friday, March 2, 2007 4:47:37 PM
Whoever, rich or poor, who loves stray dogs, are noble souls. Dogs killing humans are rare. The poor things must have in some way been pushed over the brink and we humans are responsible. Thus we are responsible for the child's death.

K.Venugopal Friday, March 2, 2007 4:51:40 PM
Dear Perfektm, Hotdog is a non-vegetarian item, no doubt. But it is not made from dogs.

avinash Friday, March 2, 2007 6:51:51 PM
dog is a man's best friend.a vet gives the same medicine as his counterpart who treats humans.we are only blowing our heads within the ring so what differance does it make?stop this tu-tu,main-main stuff---------------n.ignore it if you don't like it.aren't we ignoring so many ills in day-to-day life?
avinash Friday, March 2, 2007 7:09:38 PM
phir tu-tu main-main,kisko bhol rahe ho?apna rai apna tumhara rai tumhara tik hain.bhagwan dattatreya ke paas char kuthe hain aur char kuthe char ved mane jathe hain?do you know this?first ascertain what breed those dogs are near the lord and then we can debate.
exact Friday, March 2, 2007 7:11:14 PM
dog maybe a man's best friend. but not stray dogs.
horrified Saturday, March 3, 2007 12:22:23 PM
Horrified by Venugopal's defence. you can love dogs but cant defend vandalism by dogs. dogs are as dangerous as tigers sometimes. even a 4year old death is treated so lightly. it speaks volumes of some bloggers.
Roger Saturday, March 3, 2007 1:09:34 PM
Dear Venu, Why did you not use this reasoning in the case of Godhra?
Roger Saturday, March 3, 2007 1:14:21 PM
Venu, one rabid dog bites someone, therefore wiping out all dogs is a just ifiable response. After all, the initial provocation was caused by the dog. Sounds familiar?
K.Venugopal Saturday, March 3, 2007 3:08:07 PM
Dear Roger, The 'initial provocation' logic cannot be used in the case of dogs or animals because they are unable to reason anything for themselves. They only go by instinct. It is we, mankind, who ought to be responsible for the welfare of all living beings, not just mankind. This should be our goal and let us not, whatever the circumstances, blame poor innocent dumb animals.

K.Venugopal Saturday, March 3, 2007 3:41:46 PM
Dear Horrified, You are treating lightly the killing of thousands of stray dogs . We, who have the genius even to go to the moon, should find some way out of the stray-dogs menace in a most humane manner.

Roger Saturday, March 3, 2007 4:11:46 PM
Dear Venu, but this is the very l o g i c you used to explain the genocide in Gujarat.
Roger Saturday, March 3, 2007 4:13:24 PM
And that was by men ( I refrain from calling them humans) who, as you point out, ARE able to reason for themselves.
K.Venugopal Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:52:22 PM
Dear Roger, The large scale violence in Gujarat took place only because of the Godhra incident. Can you deny that?
K.Venugopal Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:53:14 PM
Now what you are saying is the violence should not have occurred, regardless of Godhra. Ideally, Godhra should not have occurred and no reaction would have occurred. Again, ideally, the reaction should not have happened, regardless of Godhra. And probably many such non-reactions down the line, finally, who knows, violence itself would end, with there being no victims left. Or with the aggressor transforming, like Ashoka did.
Roger Saturday, March 3, 2007 11:06:52 PM
Dear Venu, a man (of principle) does not change his principles according to the situation. Your philosophical position with regard to Godhra, is in conflict with your position on stray dogs.
K.Venugopal Sunday, March 4, 2007 10:56:08 AM
Dear Roger, You have not answered my question. Would the large scale violence in Gujarat have taken place if the Godhra incident did not take place?

Roger Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:04:11 PM
Dear Venu, No, it would not have occurred. But we are not discussing causality, we are discussing whether it was right. And if it was, how can "initial provocation" logic not apply to stray dogs?
K.Venugopal Sunday, March 4, 2007 6:25:25 PM
Dear Roger, The question is, how do we ensure that stray dogs (or any animal, for that matter) do not attack humans? Some think stray dogs should be killed. I do not think so. Some have pointed out that a solution could be in a vaccination-sterilisation programme like that carried out by the Tamil Nadu government. I think this is more like it.About principles, I would say the same principle applies everywhere - live and let live. Or, in the specific case of dogs, stray or otherwise - let sleeping dogs lie.

Roger Sunday, March 4, 2007 9:11:11 PM
Dear Venu, Actually, the question is, whether stray dogs should be killed, because some of them attack humans. You say they should not. Fair enough. But then, how can you legitimise genocide becuse of what happened in Godhra? Clearly a case of changing your principles to suit the occasion.
Roger Sunday, March 4, 2007 9:18:42 PM
And you say dogs should not be killed because (a) they are incapable of reasoning and (b) they are probably goaded into attacking. Humans cannot claim diminished reponsibility based on incapacity of reason. And what if point (b)were true of Godhra? And true responsibility lies with the tormentors, if that be the case?
K.Venugopal Sunday, March 4, 2007 10:50:23 PM
Dear Roger, The violence occurred because of Godhra, which you also have conceded. This point is missed by those who speak only of the violence and not what caused it. And when you say 'true responsibility lies with the tormentors', are you also not conceding the principle of 'initial provocation', which was Godhra? Or do you mean something else when you say 'tormentors'?

Roger Monday, March 5, 2007 1:05:39 AM
No, I am merely paraphrasing your argument.. "The poor things must have in some way been pushed over the brink and we humans are responsible. Thus we are responsible for the child's death." Why not apply this argument to the cause behind Godhra?
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 5:49:53 AM
Dear Roger, Animals, being instinctive beings, can't be charged with being irresponsible. Only man, conscious of his consciousness, can be held to be responsible or irresponsible. You seem to be suggesting that Muslims were pushed over the brink in some way, forcing them to burn a bogey full of Hindu pilgrims. Please elaborate.

K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 6:32:34 AM
Also, please note that no statute book anywhere says that animals must be punished for any ‘crime’. Whereas in the case of man, crime and punishment is a given.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 6:33:16 AM
If a civilized society is to prevail, man should not take law into his own hands. But for such an ideal civil society, man has first to be cultured to abjure his sense of vengeance.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 6:39:32 AM
Jesus went even further and taught that we should offer the other cheek. And I am sure some rare individuals must have responded in such manner to violence.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 6:45:59 AM
But, so long as we do not drop our ego and move from group identity to freedom from identity, violence seems inevitable in society.

perfektm Monday, March 5, 2007 7:57:42 AM
K.Venugopal..not in china or korea... :)start your own Dog recipies...wolf.ok.ac.kr/~annyg/english/e5.htm
Roger Monday, March 5, 2007 7:38:03 PM
Dear Venu, I am suggesting nothing, merely pointing out that you are applying your reasoning selectively. You suggested dogs were perhaps pushed over the brink, why deny the same possibility to Godhra?
Roger Monday, March 5, 2007 7:44:35 PM
Dear Venu, You can continue defending the indefensible.. all I will say is that anyone who condones the killing of innocent women and children is lacking in humanity.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 9:32:10 PM
Dear Roger, You have conceded that the violence would not have happened if Godhra, where innocent women and children were burnt to death by people who were certainly lacking in humanity, had not happened. You have thereby also pointed out where the responsibility lies.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 9:33:32 PM
When the conclusion is clear, you prod me to extend my logic and wonder whether, like the stray dogs of Bangalore, they burnt the coach only because they were pushed over the brink by their tormentors.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 9:35:02 PM
No saving grace here, for I don't see the Muslims as ever having been pushed over the brink in India, except where they have pushed themselves over.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 9:41:17 PM
Or any tormentors, except their self-defeating ideology.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 9:42:16 PM
In the aftermath of any violence which we could not prevent, the most important thing to be done is to fix responsibility. Only then can we hope that such tragic events do not recur.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 9:43:16 PM
In the aftermath of Godhra and subsequent violence, I fix the responsibility for the same upon those who burnt the Godhra train, whoever they may be. And in the aftermath of little Manjunath's death, I put the blame on the civic authorities and not on the poor stray dogs.
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 9:43:54 PM
However, you say I am inconsistent unless I either say those who burnt the Godhra train were innocent or I join the chorus of calls for killing the stray dogs of Bangalore. I think I’ve pinpointed responsibilities correctly. Where have I changed my principles to suit the occasion?
K.Venugopal Monday, March 5, 2007 9:47:58 PM
I reiterate, Dear Roger, I do not condone violence. But I shall not seek to be politically correct and fail to pinpoint who I think is responsible for violence in a situation which I am sufficiently well-versed in.

Roger Monday, March 5, 2007 10:37:32 PM
The killing of innocents at Godhra was inhuman and barbaric. It has been universally condemned. Retaliating in kind as a response to Godhra cannot ever be right, two wrongs don't make a right. Why are you unable to condemn the second act of inhumanity, and simply harp on the first, citing cause and effect?
Roger Monday, March 5, 2007 10:38:37 PM
Your inconsistency is in your argument which is essentially:-Dogs are not responsible for reacting to provocation, because they are incapable of reason. -The killers in Gujarat, although capable of reason, are not responsible for their actions, because they were provoked.
Roger Monday, March 5, 2007 10:48:41 PM
If dogs are NOT responsible because they CANNOT reason, why are the killers NOT responsible, when they CAN reason?
K.Venugopal Tuesday, March 6, 2007 12:45:46 AM
Dear Roger, Those who burnt the train were responsible for all the violence. Punish all who indulged in violence by all means but do not evade the question of who was responsible for it all. Merely condemning violence is not enough.

Roger Tuesday, March 6, 2007 2:49:39 AM
Dear Venu, The people who burnt the train were responsible for their actions, and should be punished. I have not for a moment evaded or denied this. Equally, the people who killed in retaliation, are also responsible, and should be punished. Why do you evade this?
K.Venugopal Tuesday, March 6, 2007 7:54:07 AM
Did I not say "Punish all who indulged in violence by all means"? No one can avoid or evade the consequences of his or her actions. But who was responsible, that is the cardinal question. The civic authorities in Bangalore and those who burnt the train in Godhra, I say. You may disagree on who was responsible in either case. But in what way do you fault my conclusions? How do you say I am inconsistent? Why do you evade the question of pinpointing responsibility?

Roger Wednesday, March 7, 2007 1:31:08 AM
Responsibility lies with the persons who committed the act. Responsibility cannot be shifted by citing "provocation" or causality, because, as you pointed out, humans have the capacity to reason.

K.Venugopal Wednesday, March 7, 2007 9:36:14 AM
Dear Roger, Responsibility for the infamous ‘Gujarat violence’ lies with the persons who committed the violence of burning the train in Godhra. All subsequent violence is a result of this single act of violence. While I am not condoning any violence, including retaliatory violence, the responsibility for the retaliatory violence should rest with those who started it all. However, I concede we cannot determine 'who started it all' because Godhra itself maybe a retaliation of, say, Ayodhya. Nevertheless when we speak of the unspeakable violence that happened in Gujarat in the aftermath of Godhra, then surely the blame or responsibility can only be on those who burnt the train. At this point I must also add that I am not comfortable with the concept of 'retaliatory violence' but since there is much community-identity going on in society, retaliatory violence is, sadly, inevitable. Thus it is all the more important that we pinpoint those responsible for triggering off any large scale violence. Why do you evade this point?

Roger Wednesday, March 7, 2007 9:46:58 PM
Whatever the cause, reponsibility lies with the perpetrator. It is ironical, that the logic you use, is the same one used in certain societies, that a woman who is raped is responsible, not the rapist, because she "tempted" him. So the inability of the man to resist provocation is her fault!
Roger Wednesday, March 7, 2007 10:22:17 PM
Why stop at Ayodhya, it can be extended to Aurangzeb, or Babur or to the dawn of recorded history. The act has to be separated from the cause. I do not accept that an act can be j_st_fied by the provocation, no matter how grievous. It may explain why the act occurred, but it does not excuse it.
K.Venugopal Friday, March 9, 2007 12:27:39 AM
Dear Roger, All who indulge in violence are culpable. It has to be that way - otherwise the rule of law will break down. Violence is not a reflexive action (a defensive action may be a reflexive action, though). Violence has to be plotted and upon execution, those at the receiving end either take to non-violence or retaliate. The tragedy is when violence turns communal - then no innocents are segregated. Therefore are not those who begin violence actually more (ir)responsible than those who retaliate? They are doubly responsible, both for their own violence and the violence they thereby instigate.

K.Venugopal Friday, March 9, 2007 3:40:50 PM
Dear Roger, As I said earlier, I am uncomfortable about giving any legitimacy to retaliation. But when fear of the other dominates, then retaliation might be seen as a means of self-defense. Therefore it is important to trace all bouts of violence to initial provocation if we are to get to the root of the problem.

Roger Friday, March 9, 2007 9:45:47 PM
As you yourself pointed out, how far can back you go? Any historical act has to been seen in the context of it's times, we cannot apply today's standard of morality to a historical act. Therefore the initial provocation logic cannot be sustained while determining responsibility.
Roger Friday, March 9, 2007 10:17:16 PM
The law does consider mitigating circumstances through the plea of diminished responsibility. But responsibility is diminished not absolved. Acting in self defence is permitted, but it stretches the realms of credulity to argue any of the acts in Gujarat were in self defence.
K.Venugopal Friday, March 9, 2007 11:24:53 PM
Dear Roger, Not determining the initiator of violence in the midst of peace and just settling on punishing all who indulge in violence would be tantamount to treating the symptoms and not the cause. A retracing from the effect to cause is necessary for proper treatment.
K.Venugopal Friday, March 9, 2007 11:34:49 PM
Dear Roger, I agree with you that an historical act has to be seen in the context of its times. But should we adopt the principle of 'different times, different morals'?
K.Venugopal Friday, March 9, 2007 11:39:30 PM
Do cardinal qualities like truth, justice, morality, sensitivity etc. change in value with times?
K.Venugopal Friday, March 9, 2007 11:40:17 PM
Dear Roger, The post Godhra violence was an act of self-defense by the Hindus because the Godhra violence was sponsored by international agents of terrorism. All terrorist acts perpetrated in India are anti national and the purpose is to cow down the state and intimidate the Hindus and are sponsored by Pakistan or Pakistani elements in India. Therefore to determine and expose the initiators of terrorist violence would help in discovering patterns and undoing terrorist networks.
K.Venugopal Friday, March 9, 2007 11:42:14 PM
Dear Roger, Thank you for pointing out the concept of mitigating circumstances and diminished responsibility. This is quite what I wished to put across.

Roger Saturday, March 10, 2007 2:13:20 AM
Venu, morality, justice etc are evolving concepts. What is our position on Sati today? Has it not changed over time? Euthanasia and genetic engineering are the big moral dilemnas of today. You see truth and values as absolute, but nothing is.
K.Venugopal Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:12:29 PM
Dear Roger, Freedom is a must if man is to grow to his full potential. The only curb on an individual’s or a collective’s freedom should be when it transgresses others’ freedom. However, we are often at odds as to what constitutes freedom without transgression. Physical transgressions are clear enough because physical boundaries are clear. Also, the onus of violence ensuing upon such transgressions are plain. But the boundary of freedom vis-à-vis the psychological sphere is often intolerantly set. For example, if a writer express a certain opinion publicly and it psychological hurts someone and violence ensues, who is responsible? The person who exercised his freedom of speech or the person with a low tolerance level? Sati, suicide, euthanasia, santhara etc. does not cause physical violence to others. We should hence respect the individual’s choice in these matters. Morality and justice are the bedrock of our freedom. We cannot afford to dilute its application and thereby corrupt freedom. Truth and values are absolute, only its expressions change with time.

A campaign to increase the tenure of Dr. Kalam

Thursday, March 1, 2007
A campaign to increase the tenure of Hon.Dr.APJ Abdul Kalam as the President Of India
Hi,>>Our honorable president period ends by 2007. He had been informed not to>continue by the congress government . Some youngsters of INDIA set a site given below for>requesting the Indian congress government to extend his period for the next five >years. If you are willing Dr.APJ to continue as president then you can>enter your support in that website. Hurry UP. Please forward it to all> honest Indians.>> http://www.petitiononline.com/apj/>>It's totally shameful to see only 230600 signatures!! . World powers>already started to recognize India 's power and strength . We need>dignified leaders like Dr.APJ to lead the world biggest democracy..>Let's start signing and forward to all true Indian .. ls forward to you> Lets condemn the Cheap politicians of Congress who are trying to bring him down By playing the
caste ,religious and vote bank politics ,

Congress Government doesn’t have any right to bring down our honorable and lovable presidents tenure.
Against the wish of Indian people and their emotions , kalam Who Is a role model for millions of Indians Trying to bring him down is an insult for each and every honest Indian , If the Corrupted Politicians persist on bringing him down as president As a True, honest and sincere Indian he should be brought back as The Prime minister of India
Let everybody request the congress to stop his dirty politics

>Pls fwd this to all ur friends.
www.indiavision2020.org
3:52:33 PM
Posted By raj hema Comments (2) PhotoBlogs
Comments
Blog_Inspector Thursday, March 1, 2007 5:27:33 PM
Mr. Kalam has already reportedly expressed his desire not to seek a second term as President and wants to settle down in Chennai and teach to engineering students. Please allow him to do that peacefully. Also, Seshans who can stay in the system and reform it are rare comets in the Indian horizon who appear may be once in a few decades.
K.Venugopal Thursday, March 1, 2007 8:50:29 PM
If not Dr. Kalam, then someone as distinguished (and we have innumerable such men and women) but not those who have been in politics. There are, again, honourable and distinguished men and women in politics, but let the President's post be reserved for dynamic people who have served the nation other than through politics. We need an apolitical president. Someone like Dr. Narayana Murthy or Dr.Vandana Shiva. Why, indeed, let us have a woman as our President.