Papa don't preach!

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 POPE & “ The Sword of Islam”.PAPA don't preach? I have been consciously trying to avoid commenting on this very sensitive and controversial issue, since it broke out. I feel that I am not competent enough and further I too, like so many others who have been commenting, know very little about the whole subject. So I decided to stay away, and I am staying away. HOWEVER, I am quite amused by the way “ Secular, Liberal media” and the “secular” brigade has taken the whole issue. Two great religions Islam and Christianity, both “secular” are debating an issue with the “secular” media caught in between. I can sense how they wish that a HINDU priest had said it THAN POPE; they would have been more comfortable, in-fact delighted is the right word. After all HINDUS are “communal”. What a screaming headline would have been then” COMMUNAL, FUNDAMENTALIST, FASCISTS, DIVISIVE, INHUMAN ETC.” LAUNCHES AN ATTACK ON THE “MINORITIES”. Absolutely? “Politically Correct”. How the “secular industry” would have loved it! An issue so Dear to “them”. After all rozi roti ka sawal hai bhai. Just imagine, what would have happened? Had it been… 1.Narrender MODI? Remember the way in which the “media” and “secularists” had reacted when he merely mentioned then CEC as James Michael Lyndough. 2.Praveen Togadia? Would have been hanged by NOW. 3.RSS or VHP or BAJRANG DAL? What more the “secularist” could have asked for? 4.Had the POPE said something about “HINDUATAVA” instead of ISLAM? He, THE POPE would have been appreciated for his “objectivity, insight etc.”. 5.How would the protesters have been labeled? Though, HINDUS as a community would have reacted just the way Muslims are reacting the world over- I DOUBT VERY MUCH- yet would have been seen as “FASCISTS”. Thinking all that could have happened, all the possibilities, I am very glad that IT DID NOT HAPPEN. I AM PROUD TO BE An INDIAN first and then HINDU. And this has dampened the spirits of “secularists”. Celebrated stars and a “self confessing and proud too bastard, and successful too at the same time”, NGO’s, Documentry filmmakers, TEIESTA’s of the world, sad day for you???? Sorry folks. Just as I am Proud to be an INDIAN HINDU, at the same time I feel sad that the “political correctness” of the “media” and “secularists” force them to label ME, as COMMUNAL… SO BE IT, DAMN I CARE. To quote Swami Vivekanand Ji from his speech made at the parliament of religions in Chicago in 1893.Swami Ji said… “The Christian is not to become a Hindu or Buddhist nor a Hindu or Buddhist to become a Christian, but each must assimilate the spirit of the other and yet preserve his individuality”. He asked every one “…to help and not fight, assimilate and not destroy to ensure harmony and peace and not dissension.” This is the SECULARISM I want “WE” to understand. Each and every religion is GREAT, and I (as a HINDU) respect the rights of their followers to practice it the way they want. However each religion evolved over the time. Many of the religions, Hinduism and Christianity especially, got rid of many things, which were not recommendable for the modern time. Such as SATI, CHILD MARRIAGE, INEQUILITY, SEX DISCRININATION etc. were discarded from our HINDU religion. Because Hindus like, Swami Vivakanand, Raja Ram Mohan Roy, Sant Jyoti Bha Phule, Swami Dayanand Sarswati and many many more took pains to reform the society. And the reforms came from with in (from with in the community). So did Christianity do away with many Victorian era practices? Because questions were asked and answered, debated and discussed as it is the only solution. But Islam has not done much debating, (each time some one, any one for that matter starts a debate, the voice is tried to be silenced by the sheer mob fury and violence) leave alone reforms. I suppose the absolute finality of the HOLY Quran and unquestioning surrender of faithful makes it difficult to debate first and if at all. And this is what ALL Papa POPE is asking for. So we witness the outrage, each time they are questioned. This perhaps is not advisable for any one in general and for followers of ISLAM in particular when most of the terrorists have Muslim sounding names, if not “MUSLIMS”. Mean time, PAPA DON’T PREACH ????? Regards Anil Joshi 3:06:05 PM Posted By Anil joshi Comments (42) Politics Comments Peter Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:25:23 PM The popeIf you read carefully, what the pope said during a reading at theRegensburg University, you will notice the following:1. The fact , that Mohammed wants the Islam to be defended by weapons,that is fight, was only a QUOTATION, not the POPE?s own words.2. The Pope said, that every religion that is depending on violence can not be right.I think anybody is aware, that today nobody ,especially not aman in the POPEs position wouldbe so undiplomatic to say anythingagainst one of the big religionsof our world!But first of all;: raed carefully what EXACTLY the POPE said, and not what the PRESS,TV etc. are writing ! Kalyani.S.Shankar Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:33:41 PM Good and i believe that PAPA said right,so PAPA DO PREACH. Shruti dewan Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:38:01 PM Absolutely right,Islam has not been reformed and the problem lies in what they call themselves as the ULTIMATE.I agree they are the ULTIMATE in Killing Innoncents.what say? Proud Hindu Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:48:59 PM We are not cowards,problem is the Jaichands of the like V P Singh,Arjun Sing,RAM_DOSSA,Mulayam etc.Bring Modi to Delhi and see the difference.Proud Hindu Paresh Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:49:40 PM WELL SAID SHRUTI I AGREE WITH YOUPARESH jj Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:05:02 PM kudos to anil joshieurope experienced renaisance and christianity was modernisedthe pope took on the role of a peacemaker. For all his statements i do accept the pope as a holy guy.at least he does not advocate violence.Islam was spread by the sword. the majority of the ancestors of today's muslims were infact innocent children kidnapped from the mughal army and forced to embrace islam trueindian Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:08:35 PM All this Islam bashing should stop.Islam means peace.Islam preaches brother hood,all those semi litterate calling them selves as popular,are manipulators .All Islam wants is JUSTICE.True Indian. Prem kumar Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:29:52 PM islam is a wonderful religion of all. i read a lot about islam it is talking about one god, equality among all humans, what is right, forbid evil things which no other religion pacticed because islam is ultimate religion one should followprem i m gulnani Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:32:26 PM Dear Anil,I have logged in after a considerable time,II found that you have not lost the touch.You have said it right that Islam needs reforms,but who is going to bell the cat?They start rioting the moment some one say any damn thing.I agree that IT IS MOB FURY.with regardsI M GulnaniShiridi prem kumar Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:35:54 PM this pope lost his mental balance. if one is look at history who is responsible for all destructions and killings. This pope is from the Germany which has produced Hitler, the main warmonger of Second World War. The Protestant-Christian-Germany and Catholic-Christian-Italy together with Buddhist-Japanese started the Second World War. The Jewish-Controlled-Protestant-Christian-USA, Jewish-Communist-Controlled-Orthodox-Christian-Russian and Anglican-Christian-England fought these three and dropped two Atom-Bombs on the Buddhist-Japanese. 45 million people died in the Second World War 1939-1945 due to the war fought between Christians and Buddhist. so don't blame islam, blame your christianity. gaytri n Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:38:02 PM true media should reflect on it's secularism and so do the Islam.I read true indian and want to ask the same u asked .y do most of the terrorists have muslim sounding names?POPES or RSS's conspiracy.Gaytrichennai prem kumar Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:39:22 PM islam was revealed to mankind thru prophet mohammad by GOD almighty. It does not require any reform because god can never make mistake. it is not a religion created by human being. look at our hinduism believe in all stupidity, encourage child marriage, sati, divide human beings on cast basis. hinduism was created to fool all indians but to protect 2%. oh hindu awake.prem-a dravidan Shruti dewan Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:41:20 PM Come on this so called "prem kumar" we all know who you are.Face the reality do not hide behind some stupid and obivious pseudoname.fake people,fake identity.what say? irshad Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:45:17 PM anil joshi is a pathalogical sicm man.avoid him like plague. Shruti dewan Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:52:59 PM Dravidan,ooh!great leaders like karunanidhi, mulayam, vp singh, lalu, mayawathi to save india.SO YOU ARE FAKE MAN SO YOU ARE,TAKE ALL YOUR GREAT LEADERS ALONG AND DROWN IN BAY OF BENGAL.GOOD RIDDENCE. prem kumar Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:53:16 PM you 2% sruti devan, i am not a fake identity but a true dravidan, the real son of soil, believe in equality. you 2% dividing india in the name of hiduism. india need more great leaders like karunanidhi, mulayam, vp singh, lalu, mayawathi to save india from 2%. shame on RSS, VHP, BJP. Indu Mukhoppadya Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:53:21 PM I watched you on NDTV X factor on friday,u look good man.Indu anandkant Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:58:39 PM we can come to debate and question what pope said was right or not - in my view , if you read his personal apology statement - " feel deeply sorry for reaction in Islamic world on my remarks on Islam..." is he sorry for saying it or Muslims reacting to iti question the timing and need for saying all this nonsense - what someone said in 14th century needs no repetition from him and why say when you don't believe it - was it a book reading section with someone instrcuting him to read out the specific text - absolutely cover up and lame excuse statement An invisible and cold war has been aggravated between Islam and Christianity - in times when muslim fundamentalists are all looking to attack and finding reasons for it like Iraq, Afghanistan - no need for a responsible Pope to add fuel to fire -what was going through his mind when he said it - what did he expect to happen from his statement - people rushing to convert to christianity becuase islam is fundamentally farcist or violent OR reforming the religion OR what????at this juncture it's not a feasible or sensible option to wage a war against islam as that's flimsy, unwarranted and purely emotional and intolerant - if 2 biggest cmmunities hate each other - no one will win - irrespective of who is right or wrong - the greatest irony of such events is that the repurcussions are borne by those who have no connection or responsibility for it - Islam needs reforms but not in belief rather reform the preachers who misinterpre the religion to misguide relatively lesser educated people and in teh end attracting wrong perception about the whole belief prem kumar Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:09:45 PM anandkant, i fully agree with you. why pope has to talk what someone said in 14th century. this means he believe in it. when he see protest all over world then he cover up. this 2% internet terrorists who hate islam waiting for oppurtunity immediately join together. you are absolutely correct anand Islam needs reforms but not in belief rather reform the preachers who misinterpre the religion.prem To Prem Kumar Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:20:05 PM Prem Kumar,People would comment not because what you said but because u r an id**iot. There are 3 things u should know. Just that a bas**tard only can curse his mother so also a mentally sick person alone can curse his own religion. Secondly little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Hindus have given the world the Vedas, the philosophy of Yoga and message of peace. There are evil minded people in every religion so also some Brahmins among Hindus did some bad things but that no way means what u said about hindus.Lastly the very words u have said proves beyond doubt that u personally do not have a religion. Remember religion does become gr8 because of numbers but because of other things which people like u and terrorists cannot understand prem kumar Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:25:11 PM towards the end all religions will come to an end and ONLY islam will remain prem kumar Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:36:46 PM how come brahmins among hindus did some bad things only. NO. they did great damage and are doing even today. is there any difference between these two terrorists MODI and BINLADEN?. one is hiding can not come out openly. look at modi he killed hundreds yet ruling gujarat and idiots like you still supporting. so you 2% internet terrorists are really bad for india's progress.prem-a dravidan Punkinhead Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:38:00 PM Mr. Joshi,U think if the Pope had said anything wrong about Hindus there would have been a mild reaction from the so called Parivar unlike what the muslims are doing?Come on Joshi ji...don't be so immatured...the world has seen the violent reactions of Sangh on many issues...be it valentine day or savarkar or vande mataram or Gujarat riots or babri etc etc etc. prem kumar alter ego Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:48:26 PM Prem Kumar,People would comment again not because you are probably a frustrated youth but because your IQ is low and have an acute lack of good reading skills. Who mentioned Modi here?Atleast Modi is allowing non hindus to live, uor new prophet Osama wants everyone save his blood to be dead.Also y are u so shy in claiming to be a muslim? Beats me !!! Shruti dewan Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:57:04 PM hey prem,cool it dude! NDTV guys would have a LOL of a life time reading uor comments. Guess u r making a laughing stalk of uorself...watch out LOL :) anubha Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:30:27 PM Hai,man how many "prems"crawiling here? BTW what are querraling for?Go get some life LOL.anil from where did you collect the quote of swami Vivakanand.Nice one.BTW good satire on media.lago raho munna bhai.i watched you too,and who is this girl drooling over???? anubha Right Path Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:45:06 PM Why we can not think widely that we all are from one father (Adam)and one mother (Eve). Then, what is the problem if anybody follow any religion? Always all the way around questioning of Islam. You know why? Because Islam is not only a religion like others, but it is the way of complete life (spirtual and worldly)to reach heaven where we came from. Try to understand each other and do not stick the western media what they manipulate all the beleivers. beland u Shivangii,Jaipur Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:13:47 PM Right Path???????right path is on the wrong side of the road(moderenity i mean).Islam of course is a religion of,pieces and not peace.PIECES BE UPON YOU. Deviyani Pahawa Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:19:42 PM wher is RUZAN?No comments?waiting for you to respond.Deviyani Pahawa K. Venugopal Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:28:27 PM Mr. Anil Joshi, you are absolutely fantastic! Deviyani Pahawa Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:10:26 PM RUZAN,lost in wilderness?Any answer to this?Deviyani Pahawa randomman Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:54:33 PM Hi Everyone,I am enlightened by this ongoing great war of words on the supremacy of 'Religions'.It is a treat to see sentinels of each religion oggling and outpouring statistical data and sensitive tales from other religions to ridicule it.Does it make their religions great? I do not know.All the same, my convictions remain steadfast i.e. First,No religion is good or bad; it is only an opinion born out of intolerant views. Second, religion is a way of life, laying down certain norms for temporal and social living of a man. It is an idea of a particular time period and it keeps refining. Watch the divisions in each religion. Third, religion is a private affair and should be locked at home.Finally, I am not an athiest. I am Proud to be 'Hindu' but i donot sell my religion. And I care a damn what 'Pope' or 'Head Priest' of 'MECCA' thinks about it. If it is good it will say so. Only the 'weak' think otherwise. Alisha Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:06:10 AM I agree with you random man, I've been visiting this blog offlate and all I see is bikcering about religion. It pains me to think this is what our country has come down to. What's even sadder, is that educated people like ourselves, indulge in such language. All I can say, if you know who you are, know who your god is and truly believe in your religion, you would not find the need to defend your beliefs and question those of others.Thats all I can say! loud Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:24:07 AM LOWDE KA TEEN ruzan_shah Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:00:57 AM Thanks to all in general who was waiting for my response & Deviyani in particular.....lolAs Anil himself stated in the blog that he has very little knowledge on the subject, I dont think its proper for me to discuss,debate or argue with him on the subject.But as usual his blog make me laugh.On the one hand he advocated importance of debate & discussion whereas on the same blog he contradicted himself by saying "Papa Dont Preach"So Mr Anil tell me what side u belong to ?Joshi ji aapNa idhar ke hoNa udhar keAap ho "Beechwale"lolAnyway only defective stuff needs reform and Islam is immaculate , it doesn't need no reform so u guys stop worrying about Islam & better keep ur house straight.You need to do many more reformsin your faith.And Anil proudly mentioned Raja Ram Mohan & others for their positive work but my friend let me tell you that those reform started within Hinduism only after arrival of Islam & Christianity in Inida.I challenge u to show me a single reform pre-dated to the inception of Islam & Christianity in India.Like every other religion we too have some problems but we know the root cause of those problems.People are picking up on Islam due to some bad followers but they have to understand the historical facts.Indeed many people converted to Islam and with them they brought some bad stuff to the community.We know that and we are trying them to be a true muslim by totally discarding their bad heritage. If Ganga dump her own water as garbage into Jamuna, Jamuna is bound to riverberated....lolIf u happen to visit any river after flood u will notice all those garbage which drawned in from others, others who just cant clean up their own sins hence give it up or dump it in the lerch.So we are doing that divine work of spiritual & psychological cleansing,instead of refusing something which is imperfect we accept it coz we know it will become straight by the touch of Islamic teachings. ruzan_shah Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:20:46 AM C o n t i n u e.......Anil know the trueth that they have no formula for all those persecuted & opressed people who converted to Islam.Yes Hinduism has no remedy for the upliftment of shudras.So u guys exploited them & left them to die.Islam shows them dignity of human lives,equality & straight path hence they converted to Islam.It is the positive divine appeal of Islam which prompted all those converts to Islam. Nobody can spread religion by sword. I challenge u to make India Hindu state by sword if you can ?Nobody can ever do that.My friend Anil doesn't understand differance between question & accusation.....lolor may be thats his way to ask question , by accusing others.Its damn easy to accuse everything but hard to offer way out.For an exampleHinduism allows their followers to drink Alcohol but its forbiden in Islam and look almost 90 % of the converts are not drinking alcohol.So the point is we are doing spiritual purification and such a mamoth task takes time so be patient & dont accuse us of something that we are doing , what u guys left untouchable.Once again thanks to all those who were anxious for my response, keep it up, seek the trueth & the trueth will set you free.(If anybody wants more details on opression of dalits by upper cast Hindus please refer "Riddles in Hinduism" by Dr Baba Saheb Ambedkar)I suggest "beechwale" Joshi Ji to refer full text of decussion between 14 th century Byzantine Emperor & An Iranian Scholar of Islam which was backdrop of Benedict's referance.Plz check the full text & specially the conclusive part that will wake up Kumbha Nidra of "Ardha Satya" manav like you.Any more comments from my great Hindu breatherns ? Farhan Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:52:00 AM Hey do not get too excited about things and start giving statements that "Hindus are communal". No one ever say that any relogion is communal. Rathers its the individual that you have mentioned in your blogs like the Modis and Togadias who are. And whom do you think they want to benefit with this stance. We are in ourself stupid enough to vote these guys to power and listen to them.Do not ever target any religion because of some individuals acts. altamash Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:23:57 PM what pope said was completly lie to hide the truth of islam. and give a bad image to islam so that ppl stay away from islam. first of All in islam it does nt allow to belive whatever without reasoning but it seem in christianity.for eg. church teach that to attain salvation u hav to belive that jesus (pbuh)died for our sin other wise u wont attain salvation.but on other hand jesus said in bible that u can attain salvation only by keeping the commandment(by keeping the commond of God in old and new testiment)he dont said that to attain salvation u hav to belivie i died for ur sin he doent said this and if u read bible christian community r breaking commandment and v muslims r keeping the commandment for eg in bible it is told that jesus was circumsised on the eight day. but u ll hardly find any christian who is circumsised.but v muslim all r circumsised. v know jesus kept beared but hardly a christian v found who keep beared . even pope dont. if u ll read bible pork is prohibited but u ll find church allow it.church made it compulsary to belive in trinity but the word trinity no where present in bible.but its there in Qur an it says "dont say trinity. just stop it its batter for u" so in this way its not islam to b followed without any Question. its christianity i know a revert christian to islam whenever he used to ask a question about christianity. they used to answer that its a matter of faith. they used to say that if whole world belive in it why dont uthey fail to realize muslims dont belive in that what they had made in there religion. on other hand in Qur an it addreses to the man of understand its syas in many places that this is the scripture for those who had understanding. and if u ll c its not islam which is to b belive without Question its christianity which has no answer for its belive. altamash Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:04:24 PM first of all God will not ask me on the day of judgement that was osamabinladen a terrorist. what i can say that seens i hav not met him personally i dont know. if he is going against Qur an he is wrong coz there is nothing in Qur an which speaks against humanity.this is coz of western media they r bombarding misinformation about islam.and if u ll c its really a battle betn christian religion and islam in winning the heart of people i.e to become supreme. inspite of all efforts made by christian community to degrade islam .islam is the fastest growing religion in wolrd esp in usa and europian country. thats why enemy of islam r getting frustrated.and they putting their all efforts to meline islam and this was one of the attempt of christian wolrd in the form of pope.but according to statistic 35000 american accepted islam in usa alone after 7 month of 9 11 .which was reporten in times magazine . this shows that the more u try to meline islam the faster its grows.and it will grow coz Allah (the one true God) says in Qur an "i hav sent the with truth and the religion of islam so that it will over come over all religion however much the wrongdoer dont like it altamash Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:13:30 PM islam was not spread by sword. the following points will pove itOpinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary.The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book "Islam at the cross road" (Page 8):"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian. altamash Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:19:38 PM 6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.7. Indonesia and Malaysia.Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, "Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?"8. East Coast of Africa.Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?"9. Thomas Carlyle.The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book "Heroes and Hero worship", refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: "The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can." altamash Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:23:13 PM 12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?