Misconceptions - Reply to Venugopal

Friday, January 12, 2007
Misconceptions -Reply to Venugopal
K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 1:09:26 AM
Dear Muneerudeenji,What is worship of God? Does it mean only the 5 times prayer? Or is the whole of living a worship? If it is the later, then that can be possible only when we have awakened to our higher self, seeing creation as a reflection of our self. If it is the former, then worship is an expression of loyalty (complete with the bows). Loyalty turns us into slaves and robots, while awakening transforms us to divinity. (Funny that the Muslims are saying that this is exactly what Allah has made us for and that they are proud to be slaves of Allah. What a perverted view of religion.) Dr. Zakir Hussain, the writer of the article quoted by you, says that Taqwa is translated as God-consciousness or God-awareness. Now since God is not something you can grasp by your five senses, He has to be grasped by our inner faculties. This is possible only if God is within us, and he can be within us only as a spirit. That spirit is our own life, our soul, our atma, our consciousness. We are that atma and therefore we are God. We are not separate from God. If we were, then our consciousness of God will only be as an object of our senses and God will be reduced to a mere idol for us. Anything that can be grasped by the five senses is a material object, an idol. Since Muslims proclaim they are not idol worshippers, they have to accept that true worship is to finally realize that we are God – not be his slave. Slaves do things. The final act is to go beyond activity and become. The slave becomes the master. This leads to the conclusion that God never created anything, everything always existed in its essence, which essence, on the principle of involution and evolution, is the stage for this so called drama of creation.
Venugopal !
Again you get to post a fairly detailed comment BUT I am not able to- So again another log to reply to you.

Your DRAMA OF LIFE - is beyond me ! You say GOD is within you -and I too say the same BUT YOU CANT SAY YOU ARE GOD !
Just like you will say that a child is in its mothers' womb -Neither can the Child be the Mother NOR can the Mother be the CHILD and their relationship is something even beyond MAN and GOD- which is only spiritual -But the mother Child link is everything else BUT spiritual !

Al Hillaj Mansoor said "Ane Al Haq" (I am God) Haq means TRUTH NOT GOD ! OK -SO you are GOD-in essence - Can you please help me with my business ! Can you help INDIA win the Tests !Can YOU as GOD do something for your own family. Why are you waiting-ASK and it Shall be granted ! Why don’t you become an Ambani OR BIRLA OR MITTAL -dont be so NAÏVE Venu !

As for your first hand information from Prophet Mohamed ‘s cave in Hira – Didn’t you know he could not read or write ! So Al Hillaj Mansoor whoever-he is- (maybe YOU) go to a cave and come back with a hard bound Novel – Presto ! People will believe you !

As for the Quran being revealed by GOD to his Messenger- like I said if I gave you a brand new Laptop– without written or instruction software- How will you use it ! GOD has given life and the Quran shows how to use his life. A Muslim spends NOT more than 2 minutes for each prayer and totally 10 minutes out of 1440 minutes a day. 3 Days for Hajj and 30 days for fasting (improving his health ).The rest he spends NOT IN WORSHIP BUT in leading a righteous life ! That’s ISLAM from the 6th Century to the 21st Century ! That does not mean that previous generations did not have any guidance or messengers ! It was from their own people that their prophet came .If GOD sent an Angel to reveal the Quran- Man would have been frightened and moreover the angel cannot explain human life, procreation-food-health –without practically becoming a human !

Rocking Friday, January 12, 2007 11:06:47 AM
Veugopal ok i take your point for some time and accept that we are God.Now tell are we (you and me)rotating and revolving the earth, due to which days and nights are happening and also the seasons are changing.or there is some power which is doing all.Now tell me shall i accept your view that we are God.If we are God then why dont we have the power to rotate and revolve the earth and other planets.

K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 7:11:49 PM
Dear Rocking, God is not rotating the earth like you and I rotate a top. If we recognise God as consciousness, I have no objection. Because we are also essentially consciousness - both movement and stillness are consciousness. You have a God who needs someone (Mohammad) to take down a dictation over a period of many years in bits and pieces(was Gabriel in between?) which in turn he dictates to others and the book is finally out in its one and only edition after his death. What a long winded way for the Earth Spinner to communicate with his creation! Believe me, what happened was that Mohammad meditated, discovered himself and expressed his experience and that's the Quran. This is not a unique phenomenon in the history of mankind. Al Hillaj Mansoor said "Ane Al Haq" (I am God) and the Muslims killed him for it and thereby killed their chance to understand the true nature of God. So there you are Muslims, still thinking that God is a King sitting out there in the heavens and still in the process of doing things. What a busy man He must be! May a modern Al Hillaj Mansoor come along and enlighten you.

MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 7:20:14 PM
NDTV JIMujhe Kya Pata ki Aapko Paradise Ka Matlab Rupya Paisa AUR TAEL tha !

MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 7:43:29 PM
NDTV JIMujhe Kya Pata ki Aapko Paradise Ka Matlab Rupya Paisa AUR TAEL tha ! SAGE !I cant change your views. You were stabbed in the back by Muslims and lost and I was stabbed in the back by HINDUS AND lost. We are even-lets not complain. Only that I am taking the courts help to recover over Rs 3 crores !

MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 7:52:40 PM
Venuji !You DRAMA OF LIFE - is beyond me ! YOu say GOD is within you -and I too say the same BUT YOU CANT SAY YOU ARE GOD !



8:25:10 PM
Posted By K Muneerudeen Comments (29) Society
Comments
yaveshrana Friday, January 12, 2007 8:42:36 PM
Sir,This is an enlightened debate between two very well read persons on their respective religions. I really appreciate the depth of arguments on both sides. Each seems convincing. But I am perplexed if both of you really understand what GOD is. Sir, have you seen a remote- controlled toy? Does the toy know what is a HUMAN BEING--Who operates him? This is the relationship between the MAN and GOD. I wish I could continue.
K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 10:16:14 PM
Dear Muneerudeenji,For you God is all about demonstrating His power. That's typical, because you believe you and God are separate. From such a mind comes such challenges. For me God is the inner reality which I am. And when I awake fully to my inner reality, if not in this lifetime, then many lifetimes down the line, then I will be pleased to entertain such challenges as yours!Meanwhile, please ask Allah to enable you to walk on water. If you can't, would you conceed there is no Allah?
K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 10:22:43 PM
I am happy you conceed that God is within you. Now all you have to do is pray within. This is called meditation. Then you will understand what it is to say that you are God.
K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 10:28:12 PM
Mr. Yaveshrana, Yours is a good question. Does the toy know anything? Knowledge begins with consciousness. Though there is only consciousness, it, through the game (leela) it plays (the principle of involution and evolution - you've got to read Aruobindo Maharshi for in-depth explanation of these terms) the toy is not consciousness because it exists as a toy in the coarse state. But that is not the case with human beings. We know God. And some know as much as to proclaim we are God.
K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 10:47:03 PM
Dear Muneerudeenji, You ask, can the Child be the Mother or the Mother the CHILD? I am reminded of the saying, "The child is the father of man." Physical appearances can sometimes be overturned by logic. I say, let's in thinking go deeper than mere externals. We might even confront ourselves with questions like, "Which came first, the word or the thing?" Such questions are not questions of argument or even debate. Such questions open ourselves to our inner reality during meditation.
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 10:51:45 PM
Venuji !Why Aurobindo Mahshri- You are God- So you have it within you- Why depend on a remote or a Mahashri- Or Prophet Mohamed SAW sa you say !God is OMNIPRESENT BUT his powers are HIS ALONE !@I dint say I could tread on water- BUT Prophet Moses DID !It is exactly to prove to people like you-that he walked on water and changed his walking stick to a snake that swallowed the other magicians-real snakes !And YOU beleive in Punar Janmam BUT we Muslims,christians & Jews beleive in just One Life after death !On Judgement DAY !
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 10:53:11 PM
Venuji This blog was posted as I could not send my detailed comment.Like I said YOU are luckier in Posting Detailed Comments. OR maybe it is GOD within you allowing a detailed posting - and HE is not in my locality -(Bahrain) Today being FRIDAY -HE IS accepting supplications from Muslims ALL OVER THE WORLD !Right Mr Venu ???
K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 11:11:47 PM
Dear Muneerudeenji, I know you can't tread on water. But can't Allah make you do it? Why entertain us with fairy tales that he got Moses to walk on water? Or can't Allah Himself come down and walk on water? If you can't do either, why do challenge me, now only a potential God?Whatever we believe - one lifetime or many, a single parading before Allah and eternal gamboling with virgins or eternal fire, I am game for both possibilities.
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 11:12:03 PM
SORRY ABOUT THAT SARCASTIC LAST COMMENT...So next time will you do me a favor when you meditate ! Please come up with a simple answer-weather the chicken came first or the EGG !
K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 11:16:25 PM
Ah, Sheikh Muneerudeen, if you are a Bahraini, Keif Al Halak? Or are you there as an expatriate, like I was before? Either way, it doesn't matter. Let's enjoy exchanging views. Till we, hopefully, land in Paradise or become a King the next time around!
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 11:19:20 PM
Venuji ! Not accepting the HOLOCAUST is Blasphemy in the modern world WHEREAS the GOSPEL TRUTH in the Torah, Injeel and the QUran - is dismissed by YOU as a fairy tale !Is your meditation that Shallow-you overturn the beleifs of THREE MAJOR Religions of the WORLD !!!!
K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 11:21:29 PM
Muneerudeenji, Why, as a Hindu I have the right to overturn even the views of the Vedas. That's what Hinduism is all about - freedom. You might not understand this freedom because you are under the strictures of dos and don'ts, aren't you?
infidel Friday, January 12, 2007 11:23:58 PM
Mr Venugopal ur funny!!be logical you stupid Mr Venu, how can you believe a stupid system like hinduism
infidel Friday, January 12, 2007 11:24:08 PM
Mr Venugopal ur funny!!be logical you stupid Mr Venu, how can you believe a stupid system like hinduism?
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 11:24:28 PM
Venuji- No offence BUT I have a feeling you are sitting in NDTV office and blogging away. My detailed replies to you are not getting posted- only small sharp comments ! OR are you GOD-not allowing me to Post to you !
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 11:26:00 PM
Did you read a recent NEWS ITEM. A 5 year old boy in Ontario Canada has got 2 mothers and a father -Legally awarded by a Judge !Where are we Heading Mr Venu ? Can you please meditate and tell ??
K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 11:26:57 PM
Muneerudeenji, Believe me, I am not an NDTV warhorse. I'm only a fakir who is just lucky to get access to a PC. But don't worry, Muneer, you can beat the system by starting a fresh blog. I like your persistence.
K.Venugopal Friday, January 12, 2007 11:31:02 PM
Chicken of course, the egg can't come!
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 11:38:21 PM
Mr Infidel Bhai !No swear words PLEASE ! Sabr se Kaam Lo ! Venuji bhi maanenge !Aap fikr mat kijiye ! But language control kijiye !
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 11:42:50 PM
Got to sleep- Rest tomorrow ! TATA
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 11:44:30 PM
Alhamdullillah- Zain ! I am pure 100% thorougbred Indian Expat - You can write me at nribahrain@gmail.com.
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 12, 2007 11:46:51 PM
Venuji !Where in Bahrain were you & when ?/
Justreason7 Saturday, January 13, 2007 5:00:40 AM
Roger Friday, January 12, 2007 11:20:04 PM Mr Yavesh Rana, when will you stop jumping to conclusions? First you conclude (as pointed out by Muneeruddin) that everyone other than yourself is a fool. Then you conclude Mr M and I are the same. Now I bring a bad name to Islam.. do you know any Muslims named Roger? On each count you have been shown to be utterly wrong. You really are a bigger fool than I first thought. Justreason7 Saturday, January 13, 2007 4:57:40 AM Hehehe, Yavesh Rana's A S S has been nailed. He has been ROGERED!!!
MUNEERUDEEN Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:28:39 AM
jUST Reason @ Roger !Please keep your swear words down. Lets have a lively debate and NOT try to score points here ! PLEASE !
MUNEERUDEEN Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:40:20 AM
jUST Reason @ Roger !Please keep your swear words down. Lets have a lively debate and NOT try to score points here ! PLEASE !
MUNEERUDEEN Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:47:18 AM
Mr VanuVEDAS give FREEDOM and QUran puts strictures YES !Strictures are GOOD Things - You DO - Bad things -You DONT DO !Now I am sure we ALL understand Whats good & BAD- ITS THE SAME -in every religion ,human, creation, spirit ,and even for remote controlled robot -Relatively !
MUNEERUDEEN Saturday, January 13, 2007 5:46:34 PM
Mr VenuAs a Hindu -you have the right to overturn the Vedas- BUT as a MUslim we cannot overturn the QUR"AN . So next we will have Venu Veda , Joshi Veda , Iyer53 Veda. Great idea for earthly GODS !
MUNEERUDEEN Saturday, January 13, 2007 5:49:52 PM
Venuji !I tried to walk on water and very nearly drowned. Can you as self made GOD try it with your Kundalini Yoga- which incidentally teaches a person to stay afloat in the LOTUS Asana !
MUNEERUDEEN Saturday, January 13, 2007 5:56:53 PM
I am just being sarcastic to get you going ! Bahrainil yevedey Aairunnu Ningal ???Yeppol.? Nyan 1991 mudal ividey Aanu !

Roger Sunday, January 14, 2007 1:53:17 PM
Muneer Bhai, how can you forget about rajneesh veda, amit kaushal veda, yavesh veda, cs veda, MKB veda, sage veda, infidel veda and god knows how many such ill-informed human beings? similarly why can't we have ruzan qoran,shahul qoran,muneer qoran and SURRAHS.Why not Saddam Quran, Sunni qoran and so on.

MUNEERUDEEN Monday, January 15, 2007 1:00:49 AM
If ISLAM was a week knee'd religion -it would have buckled to the forces acting against it - BUT ALLAH's Kalam-the Quran will withstand the onslaught till QIYAMAH-and not change a word !!
Rocking Monday, January 15, 2007 6:42:45 PM
Ok Venu, God is not rotating and revolving the earth then who is doing it.as you are a learned person i think you what isaac newton's theory. It states that a thing will remain in a state untill and unless a force is acted upon.So how come the earth is moving and days and night are happening. and weathers are changing.ok if you say that it is rotating by itsefl from time immemorial and it will be forever. then why the speed of the rotation is slowly decreasing. as you may be aware of this fact too that earth's rotation is slowing down.who is slowing it down.as you the theory a thing will remain in a state unless and untill a force is acted upon.

Rocking Monday, January 15, 2007 6:51:21 PM
Ok Venu, God is not rotating and revolving the earth then who is doing it.as you are a learned person i think you know what theory is propounded by Isaac newton's. It states that a thing will remain in a state until and unless a force is acted upon.So how come the earth is moving and days and night are happening. and weathers are changing.OK if you say that it is rotating by itself from time immemorial and it will be forever. then why the speed of the rotation is slowly decreasing. as you may be aware of this fact too that earth's rotation is slowing down.who is slowing it down.as you know the theory a thing will remain in a state unless and until a force is acted upon.

Rocking Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10:11 PM
Venu, you did not know much about Islam you only know that muslims offer 5 time prayers.But mere bhai this a small or minute thing of Islam.You know a Muslim is required to chant and remember Allah with every breath of his.As far as Miracles like walking on water are concerned these things happened with the sufi saints and they even walked in the air.
Rocking Monday, January 15, 2007 7:17:59 PM

Allah's tradition is that He chooses among the people a man and appoint him as a messenger.One important thing i would like to tell all that there is a hadith in which it is mentioned that one day Prophet was sitting in the nabavi mosque. and revelation of Quran started. By chance at that time Prophets lap was on the lap of Zaid bin Thabit.and Zaid's lap was pressed severely and he was is great pain.Because the weight of the Prophet suddenly increased to unimaginable proportions.And Zaid thought his leg will be broken. But thankfully nothing happened like that. And after the revelation is over he took a sigh of relief.

Rocking Monday, January 15, 2007 7:40:37 PM
Muslims may be aware of it, I would like to tell one thing that during the revelation The Prophet used to sweat profusely, even in the Chilly and very cold nights.and also his face used to become red.Why he sweat profusely even in winter. and why does his face become red.If you try to find answers to these quesions any body would embrace Islam.

Rocking Monday, January 15, 2007 7:57:03 PM
Venugopal you said "what happened was that Mohammad meditated, discovered himself and expressed his experience and that's the Quran."So Venu to this analysis of your i would like to tell that as you may be aware that Muhammad SAW doesn't know how to read and write his own language that is Arabic, leave aside other languages.so how did he come to know the true facts and old incidents of jews. As he never followed judaism or christanity, and also never sat in the company of them as well. Don't you think that it is provided by God himself to him.

Rocking Monday, January 15, 2007 10:04:23 PM
Do you know one thing,Prophet Muhammad was famous for being truthful and being best trustee of the belongings of others. So people knew that a person who in his life time hasn't lied for worldly things how can he lie about God. and also how can he lie that he is getting revelation from God. It was out of Question for them to think on those lines.Even the strongest opponent of Prophet called Abu Jahal also admitted and told that yes I know Muhammad is telling truth but i am not accepting his faith because i don't want to be follower of him, as it would be against my pride.

kmktrust Friday, January 19, 2007 1:17:59 AM
ROCKING ! yOUR LAST LINE and what ABU JAHIL said then- our friends Venugopal- Manu-Me-Eashwar-Amit Kaushal-Lerner-Badmash Bada Badmash Radhakrishnan and others are saying ! THEY will also say that I am showing a sword & Quran ! They willalso say I am shoving ISLAM down their throats ! Let them say !

MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 19, 2007 1:22:13 AM
ROCKING ! yOUR LAST LINE and what ABU JAHIL said then- our friends Venugopal- Manu-Me-Eashwar-Amit Kaushal-Lerner-Badmash Bada Badmash Radhakrishnan and others are saying ! THEY will also say that I am showing a sword & Quran ! They willalso say I am shoving ISLAM down their throats ! Let them say !

Roger Friday, January 19, 2007 1:59:57 AM
Someone has impersonated me, and made comments under my name.